WHO ARE THE

#1 02-14-2007, 08:31 AM

WHO ARE THE "SALAFIS"?Who or what is a Salafi? Is their approach valid?:The word salafi or "early Muslim" in traditional Islamic scholarship means someone who died within the first four hundred years after the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), including scholars such as Abu Hanifa, Malik, Shafi'i, and Ahmad ibn Hanbal. Anyone who died after this is one of the khalaf or "latter-day Muslims".The term "Salafi" was revived as a slogan and movement, among latter-day Muslims, by the followers of Muhammad Abduh (the student of Jamal al-Din al-Afghani) some thirteen centuries after the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), approximately a hundred years ago. Like similar movements that have historically appeared in Islam, its basic claim was that the religion had not been properly understood by anyone since the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) and the early Muslims--and themselves. According to "Salafi" ideology, a "Salafi" is therefore one who has special knowledge or ability to follow the beliefs of the Salaf above the massive majority of common Muslims. They also include certain hand-picked scholars of later times.Of course, this illusory definition is questioned by Sunni Muslims. Even the name of "Salafi," as understood by the "Salafi" movement, is rejected on the grounds that it is an innovated appellation which Ahl al-Sunna have not used and which appeared only a few decades ago. Dr. Sa`id Ramadan al-Buti of Damascus wrote the definitive book on this issue, entitled al-Salafiyya marhalatun zamaniyyatun mubarakatun la madhhab islami (The Salafiyya is a blessed period of history, not an Islamic school).Where Ahl al-Sunna further differ with "Salafis" is in the promotion by the latter of a handful of controversial scholars as supposedly representing all of Islamic scholarship after the time of the true Salaf. They praise and advertise these controversial scholars over and above the established, non-controversial Ahl al-Sunna scholars of the intervening centuries. These few controversial scholars are:- Ibn Taymiyya and his student Ibn al-Qayyim - Ibn `Abd al-Wahhab and his Najdi epigones - Bin Baz, Uthaymin, Albani, and their propagandistsThe above claims can be found in their booklet entitled "A Brief Introduction to the Salafi Da`wah" (Ipswich, U.K.: Jam`iat Ihyaa' Minhaaj al-Sunnah, 1993) p. 2. The "Salafis" add Imam al-Dhahabi alongside Ibn Taymiyya and his student.The Sunnis disagree with the above because neither do these belong to the time of the Salaf, nor are they considered representative of the belief and practice of the Salaf, nor are they considered foremost authorities by Ahl al-Sunna. In fact the condemnation of the first three by many scholars is well-known, as are the innovations and blunders of the latter. It is interesting to note that al-Dhahabi, who is listed by the "Salafis" alongside Ibn Taymiyya in the above list, has himself characterized Ibn Taymiyya as an innovator. His precise words were:He [Ibn Taymiyya] was a virtuous and outstanding scholar, very accurate and meticulous in his intellectual examinations, but guilty of introducing innovations in the Religion (mubtadi'). These words were reported by the hadith master al-Sakhawi in his book al-I`lan wa al-tawbikh. Dhahabi's own disclaimer of the errors of Ibn Taymiyya is stated explicitly in his stern al-Nasiha al-dhahabiyya, which was published in Damascus in 1347 together with his Bayan zaghal al-`ilm. Ibn Hajar mentioned Dhahabi's Nasiha in al-Durar al-kamina (1:166), and so did al-Sakhawi in al-I`lan wa al-tawbikh (p. 504). Two extant manuscripts of the Nasiha are kept, one in Cairo at the Dar al-kutub al-misriyya (#B18823) and one in Damascus at the Zahiriyya library (#1347).
[br]The most definitive proof that the "Salafis" are the most distant of people to the pious Salaf lies in the following five fundamental aspects of Salafi ideology:

Anthropomorphism of Allah's attributes: affirming a place, direction, and corporeal limbs for Allah Almighty Who is far exalted above all of those;

Disrespect of the Prophet, blessings and peace upon him;

An amateurish, egalitarian approach to Qur'an and hadith (no need for scholars, or mastery of Arabic, or ijaza -- traditional accreditation, or the Islamic sciences);

Hatred of the Four Sunni schools of Law (the Four madhahib), the Two Schools of doctrine (Ash`aris and Maturidis), and all the schools of self-purification (Tasawwuf);

The practice of takfir: declaring other Muslims unbelievers. Mohammad al-Abbasi in his essay entitled Protestant Islam has explained that the "Salafis" are essentially Westernized modernists striving to distance themselves from their own authentic but "messy" Islamic past in favor of an inauthentic but "hygienic" past which they identify, in youthful, revisionist fashion, with the pious Salaf:With the neatness of mind which they had learnt from the West, and driven by a giddy enthusiasm which blinded them to the finer aspects of the classical heritage, many of the fundamentalists announced that they found the Islam of the people horribly untidy. Why not sweep away all the medieval cobwebs, and create a bright new Islam, streamlined and ready to take its place as an ideology alongside Marxism, capitalism, and secular nationalism? To achieve this aim, it was thought that the four madhhabs of fiqh had to go. Ditto for the Ash`ari and Maturidi theological traditions. The Sufi orders were often spectacularly exotic and untidy: they of course had to be expunged as well. In fact, at least ninety percent of the traditional Islamic texts could happily be consigned to the shredding machine: while what was left, it was hoped, would be the Islam of the Prophet, stripped of unsightly barnacles, and presiding over a reunified Muslim world, striding towards a new and shining destiny.Unfortunately we see that the principal activity of these unbarnacled, revisionist "Salafis" has been, since their Wahhabi forerunners, to declare other Muslims kafir for not thinking along the same terms as they. The pernicious little booklet which is the reason behind the present refutation is only one more of a long, sad series of similar examples. And from Allah is all success. 

#2 02-14-2007, 08:34 AM

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>WHO ARE THE "SALAFIS"?<o

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>Who or what is a Salafi? Is their approach valid?: <o

></o

>The word salafi or "early Muslim" in traditional Islamic scholarship means someone who died within the first four hundred years after the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), including scholars such as Abu Hanifa, Malik, Shafi'i, and Ahmad ibn Hanbal. Anyone who died after this is one of the khalaf or "latter-day Muslims".<o

></o

>The term "Salafi" was revived as a slogan and movement, among latter-day Muslims, by the followers of Muhammad Abduh (the student of Jamal al-Din al-Afghani) some thirteen centuries after the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), approximately a hundred years ago. Like similar movements that have historically appeared in Islam, its basic claim was that the religion had not been properly understood by anyone since the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) and the early Muslims--and themselves. <o

></o

>According to "Salafi" ideology, a "Salafi" is therefore one who has special knowledge or ability to follow the beliefs of the Salaf above the massive majority of common Muslims. They also include certain hand-picked scholars of later times.<o

></o

>Of course, this illusory definition is questioned by Sunni Muslims. Even the name of "Salafi," as understood by the "Salafi" movement, is rejected on the grounds that it is an innovated appellation which Ahl al-Sunna have not used and which appeared only a few decades ago. Dr. Sa`id Ramadan al-Buti of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com

ffice:smarttags" /><st1

lace w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Damascus</st1:City></st1

lace> wrote the definitive book on this issue, entitled al-Salafiyya marhalatun zamaniyyatun mubarakatun la madhhab islami (The Salafiyya is a blessed period of history, not an Islamic school).<o

></o

>
Where Ahl al-Sunna further differ with "Salafis" is in the promotion by the latter of a handful of controversial scholars as supposedly representing all of Islamic scholarship after the time of the true Salaf. They praise and advertise these controversial scholars over and above the established, non-controversial Ahl al-Sunna scholars of the intervening centuries. These few controversial scholars are: - Ibn Taymiyya and his student Ibn al-Qayyim <o

></o

>- Ibn `Abd al-Wahhab and his Najdi epigones <o

></o

>- Bin Baz, Uthaymin, Albani, and their propagandists<o

></o

>The above claims can be found in their booklet entitled "A Brief Introduction to the Salafi Da`wah" (Ipswich, U.K.: Jam`iat Ihyaa' Minhaaj al-Sunnah, 1993) p. 2. The "Salafis" add Imam al-Dhahabi alongside Ibn Taymiyya and his student.<o

></o

>The Sunnis disagree with the above because neither do these belong to the time of the Salaf, nor are they considered representative of the belief and practice of the Salaf, nor are they considered foremost authorities by Ahl al-Sunna. In fact the condemnation of the first three by many scholars is well-known, as are the innovations and blunders of the latter. It is interesting to note that al-Dhahabi, who is listed by the "Salafis" alongside Ibn Taymiyya in the above list, has himself characterized Ibn Taymiyya as an innovator. His precise words were:<o

></o

>He [Ibn Taymiyya] was a virtuous and outstanding scholar, very accurate and meticulous in his intellectual examinations, but guilty of introducing innovations in the Religion (mubtadi'). <o

></o

>These words were reported by the hadith master al-Sakhawi in his book al-I`lan wa al-tawbikh. Dhahabi's own disclaimer of the errors of Ibn Taymiyya is stated explicitly in his stern al-Nasiha al-dhahabiyya, which was published in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1

lace w:st="on">Damascus</st1

lace></st1:City> in 1347 together with his Bayan zaghal al-`ilm. Ibn Hajar mentioned Dhahabi's Nasiha in al-Durar al-kamina (1:166), and so did al-Sakhawi in al-I`lan wa al-tawbikh (p. 504). Two extant manuscripts of the Nasiha are kept, one in <st1:City w:st="on">Cairo</st1:City> at the Dar al-kutub al-misriyya (#B18823) and one in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1

lace w:st="on">Damascus</st1

lace></st1:City> at the Zahiriyya library (#1347).<o

></o

>The most definitive proof that the "Salafis" are the most distant of people to the pious Salaf lies in the following five fundamental aspects of Salafi ideology:<o

></o

>
<UL type=disc>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in">Anthropomorphism of Allah's attributes: affirming a place, direction, and corporeal limbs for Allah Almighty Who is far exalted above all of those; <o

></o

></LI></UL>
<UL type=disc>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo2; tab-stops: list .5in">Disrespect of the Prophet, blessings and peace upon him; <o

></o

></LI></UL>
<UL type=disc>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-list: l3 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">An amateurish, egalitarian approach to Qur'an and hadith (no need for scholars, or mastery of Arabic, or ijaza -- traditional accreditation, or the Islamic sciences); <o

></o

></LI></UL>
<UL type=disc>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-list: l4 level1 lfo4; tab-stops: list .5in">Hatred of the Four Sunni schools of Law (the Four madhahib), the Two Schools of doctrine (Ash`aris and Maturidis), and all the schools of self-purification (Tasawwuf); <o

></o

></LI></UL>
<UL type=disc>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo5; tab-stops: list .5in">The practice of takfir: declaring other Muslims unbelievers. <o

></o

></LI></UL>Mohammad al-Abbasi in his essay entitled Protestant Islam has explained that the "Salafis" are essentially Westernized modernists striving to distance themselves from their own authentic but "messy" Islamic past in favor of an inauthentic but "hygienic" past which they identify, in youthful, revisionist fashion, with the pious Salaf:<o

></o

>With the neatness of mind which they had learnt from the West, and driven by a giddy enthusiasm which blinded them to the finer aspects of the classical heritage, many of the fundamentalists announced that they found the Islam of the people horribly untidy. Why not sweep away all the medieval cobwebs, and create a bright new Islam, streamlined and ready to take its place as an ideology alongside Marxism, capitalism, and secular nationalism? To achieve this aim, it was thought that the four madhhabs of fiqh had to go. Ditto for the Ash`ari and Maturidi theological traditions. The Sufi orders were often spectacularly exotic and untidy: they of course had to be expunged as well. In fact, at least ninety percent of the traditional Islamic texts could happily be consigned to the shredding machine: while what was left, it was hoped, would be the Islam of the Prophet, stripped of unsightly barnacles, and presiding over a reunified Muslim world, striding towards a new and shining destiny.<o

></o

>Unfortunately we see that the principal activity of these unbarnacled, revisionist "Salafis" has been, since their Wahhabi forerunners, to declare other Muslims kafir for not thinking along the same terms as they. The pernicious little booklet which is the reason behind the present refutation is only one more of a long, sad series of similar examples. And from Allah is all success.<o

></o

><o

> </o

>
</o

>

Furqan · #3 02-14-2007, 10:39 AM

Assalam Alaykum warahmatullahi wabarakatu. 
If Allah is everywhere as the deviated sects allege, why Allah says, " They fear their Rubb above them." (Quran 16:50) 
Also " Verily your Rubb is Allah who created the seven heavens and the earth in six days, and then descended the Arsh."  (Quran 7:54)
Even when we pray in sujood, we say," Subhanna Rabbiyal Al'Alah"(How Perfect is our Rubb the High."
No need for scholars and Disrespect for the Nabi(Sallahu alahi wa salaam) ; Subxannalah Akhi, why do you lie? Fear Allah. 
Nabi Muhammad(Sallahu alahi wa salaam) said," Lying leads to all types of evil sins, and all types of evil sins leads to Fire."
Akhi do not deny the attributes of Allah such as Him being over His Throne which is above the seven heavens and Jannah.  Dont not deny Allah having Hands which has affirmed for himself. Yet His Hands are not like the hands of His Creation. 
Akhi if you truly want to follow the Four Imams. Follow their aqeedah. The Four Imams had the aqeedah of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah. They didnt differ in aqeedah but differ in fiqh which is allowed. They never wanted to somebody to blindly follow them. Here are some of their sayings:
Abu Haneefah,
" When a hadeeth is found to be saheeh, then this is my mathhab." 
 (Ibn `Aabideen in al-Haashiyah (1/63), and in his essay Rasm al-Mufti (1/4 from the Compilation of the Essays of Ibn `Aabideen), Shaikh Saalih al-Fulaani in Eeqaaz al-Himam (p. 62) & others. Ibn `Aabideen quoted from Sharh al-Hidaayah by Ibn al-Shahnah al-Kabeer, the teacher of Ibn al-Humaam) 
" It is not permitted that anyone accept our views, if they dont know where we got them from." 
(Ibn `Abdul Barr in Al-Intiqaa' fi Fadaa'il ath-Thalaathah al- A'immah al-Fuqahaa' (p. 145), Ibn al-Qayyim in I'laam al- Mooqi'een (2/309), Ibn `Aabideen in his Footnotes on Al-Bahr ar-Raa'iq (6/293) and in Rasm al-Mufti (pp. 29,32) & Sha'raani in Al-Meezaan (1/55) with the second narration. The last narration was collected by `Abbaas ad-Dawri in At- Taareekh by Ibn Ma'een (6/77/1) with a saheeh sanad on the authority of Zafar, the student of Imaam Abu Haneefah. Similar narrations exist on the authority of Abu Haneefah's companions Zafar, Abu Yoosuf and `Aafiyah ibn Yazeed; cf. Eeqaaz (p. 52). Ibn al-Qayyim firmly certified its authenticity on the authority of Abu Yoosuf in I'laam al-Mooqi'een (2/344). The addition to the second narration is referenced by the editor of Eeqaaz (p. 65) to Ibn `Abdul Barr, Ibn al-Qayyim and others.)
Imaam Ahmad was the foremost among the Imaams in collecting the Sunnah and sticking to it, so much so that he even "disliked that a book consisting of deductions and opinions be written."
 Imam Ahmad said, "Do not follow my opinion; neither follow the opinion of Maalik, nor Shaafi'i, nor Awzaa'i, nor Thawri, but take from where they took." (Fulaani (p. 113) & Ibn al-Qayyim in I'laam (2/302).)
It is okay to follow the Four Imams but not blindly. That is if their opinion confronts the saying of the Messenger(sallahu alahi wa salaam) then you follow the Messenger(sallahu alahi wa salaam). 
For example, muslims who follow the Maliki madhab believe that it is sunnah to raise your feet when they perform sujood which goes against the hadeeth of the Messenger(sallahu alahi wa salaam). Nabi (sallahu alahi wa salaam) ordered that we make sujood with 7 parts of our body which one of the parts include the feet. 
Reqarding takfir, takfir is something we should leave to the ulema. And Allah Knows Best. And with Allah lies teh Tauhfiq.

MrBluug · #4 02-14-2007, 02:55 PM

Mystery listen up mate  if  you are atleast going to criticize salafi way  come up with concrete evidence not utter lies and fabrication you need to stop your googling around and copy&pase business from reading your pasted article i get the idea you don't understand what you are trying to blindly hate . <ul type="disc"><li title="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">Disrespect of the Prophet, blessings and peace upon him; </li></ul>
<ul type="disc"><li title="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">An amateurish, egalitarian approach to Qur'an and hadith (no need for scholars, or mastery of Arabic, or ijaza -- traditional accreditation, or the Islamic sciences); </li></ul>
<ul type="disc"><li title="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">Hatred of the Four Sunni schools of Law (the Four madhahib), the Two Schools of doctrine (Ash`aris and Maturidis), and all the schools of self-purification (Tasawwuf); </li></ul>
<ul type="disc"><li title="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">The practice of takfir: declaring other Muslims unbelievers. </li></ul> ^^^ Look at the things you post first of all how can the followers of salaf hate the prophet even the shia's dont subaxana allah ! hatred of the four sunni imams where do you get that from  <img src="http://www.somalilife.com/file/smile/bowl.gif"> As for the amaterish approach to the Qu'ran ever heard of scholoars like IBN KATHIIR ??   AS-LAMU ALEYKUM WARAXMATULAH WA BARAKTU  MR BLUE <img src="http://www.somalilife.com/file/smile/smile.gif">

Furqan · #5 02-14-2007, 07:39 PM

Akhi how can there be an eqalitarian approach to the Quran with no need for ulema or arabic. 
The Quran is arabic. Second, we need to understand the Quran with the understanding of the Sahaba. Third, If we all intrepret the Quran the way we personally we want; it will cause disunity. And Allah Knows Best.

#6 02-15-2007, 03:20 PM

alee ibn al hassan ibn ash-shaqeeq said " i said to abdullah ibn al mubarak ( d.181H), How are we to know our lord? he said he is above the seven heavn above his throne and we do not say as the jahmiyyah say " he is here upon the earth"
Aboo mutee al-Hakam ibn al Balkhee " i asked abu haneefah about the one who says " i  do not know wether my lord is in the sky or earth" so he said " he is kaafir since Allah, the most high, says:
"The most merciful has ascended over the throne" soorah Taa-Haa.
And his Arsh(throne) is above heavens".
 
Imaam Maalik(d 179H) said: " Al Istiwa is known, and how is unknown, to have emaan in it is obligatory and to question it is innovation"
Mohammad ibn Yoosuf ( one of the teachers of imaam Bukharee) said: The one who says that Allah is not over('alaa) His throne is a Kaafir. And the one who thinks that Allah did not speak to Moses is a Kaafir".
AL-Khattaabee(d 388H) said The madhhab of the salaf with regard to to the sifaat( Attributes of Allah) is to affrim them as they are 'alaa dhaahir(with their apparant meaning, negating and tshbeeh(resemblence) to them, not  takyeef) asking how they are).
Al-khateeb al-Bashdaadee (d 463H) said: as for speech about the Attributes of Allah, that which is authentically related about them in the sunnah, then the way of the slaf  may Allah be pleased with them all, was to affirm them as they are 'alaa dhaahir( upon their apparant meaning), negating any tashbeeh( resemblence) to Allah and not asking how they are.
Ibn Abdull-barr(d 463H) said Ahlus-sunnah are agreed in affirming all the Attrributes which are related in the Quraan and sunnah, having eeman in them and understanding them ;alal haqeeqah( in real sense) not ' akal majaaz( metaphorically).
 
Shaikh Abulah Al Jailaane (d 561H) said: its essential to carry the Attrributes of Allah al-Istiwaa( Allah's Ascending) upon its apparant meaning,...
 
If you are suggetsing you are right and they are wrong then hmm i dont know.

#7 02-15-2007, 03:36 PM

Aboo 'Uthmaan as-Saaboonee(d 449H) said regarding the signs of the Ahlul-Bid'ah "And the characteristic (resulting) from (the effect of) innovation upon their people are obvious, and manifestly clear. The most apparent of the signd and characteristics is the severity of their enmity and hatred towards the carriers of the narrations of the prophet(S.A.W), their disdain of them, their scorn of them ( considering them to be valuless) and calling them..." amd then he mentions, "...Dhaahiriyyah(literalists)
If you are honestly suggesting that all this people are wrong then plz at least bring some proof.
salaam.

wackoujackou · #8 02-16-2007, 08:10 AM

I don't think that founders of the salafi methodology were disrespectful towards the schools, although many of their followers today are. Yet, it's not a secret that the salafi methodology is negative towards the schools. Ibn Taymiyyah among other salafi scholars, criticized the schools on many occasions. Also, it's not a secret that the salafi methodology is against tassawuf, I'm not sure of their stance on the ash'aris.  That being said, can I ask you against Mystery's post a question. Allah swt. says: "Verily Allah is absolutely free of need of
anything in the worlds" (Qur'an 29:6)This fact is emphasised alot in the Qur'aan. That's what seperates us from the christians who claim that Allah took human form in order to communicate with the humans (-trinity). If Allah is free of need, he doesn't need to be at one location - the sky in this case. Isn't this islamic doctrines against your belief of Allah only being limited in one place?Also, wouldn't this belief dangerously be similar to the beliefs of the hindus and christians, on the avatars/god only being present in one location?  Sincere questions.

#9 02-16-2007, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wackoujackou

I don't think that founders of the salafi methodology were disrespectful towards the schools, although many of their followers today are. Yet, it's not a secret that the salafi methodology is negative towards the schools. Ibn Taymiyyah among other salafi scholars, criticized the schools on many occasions. 
Also, it's not a secret that the salafi methodology is against tassawuf, I'm not sure of their stance on the ash'aris.
 That being said, can I ask you against Mystery's post a question. Allah swt. says: 
"Verily Allah is absolutely free of need of anything in the worlds" (Qur'an 29:6)
This fact is emphasised alot in the Qur'aan. That's what seperates us from the christians who claim that Allah took human form in order to communicate with the humans (-trinity). If Allah is free of need, he doesn't need to be at one location - the sky in this case. Isn't this islamic doctrines against your belief of Allah only being limited in one place?
Also, wouldn't this belief dangerously be similar to the beliefs of the hindus and christians, on the avatars/god only being present in one location? 
 
Sincere questions.

sorry sis, but who are you asking the questions? It is not clear.

wackoujackou · #10 02-18-2007, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wackoujackou

I don't think that founders of the salafi methodology were disrespectful towards the schools, although many of their followers today are. Yet, it's not a secret that the salafi methodology is negative towards the schools. Ibn Taymiyyah among other salafi scholars, criticized the schools on many occasions. 
Also, it's not a secret that the salafi methodology is against tassawuf, I'm not sure of their stance on the ash'aris.
 That being said, can I ask you against Mystery's post a question. Allah swt. says: 
"Verily Allah is absolutely free of need of anything in the worlds" (Qur'an 29:6)
This fact is emphasised alot in the Qur'aan. That's what seperates us from the christians who claim that Allah took human form in order to communicate with the humans (-trinity). If Allah is free of need, he doesn't need to be at one location - the sky in this case. Isn't this islamic doctrines against your belief of Allah only being limited in one place?
Also, wouldn't this belief dangerously be similar to the beliefs of the hindus and christians, on the avatars/god only being present in one location? 
 
Sincere questions.

<IMG src="http://www.somalilife.com/file/smile/biggrin.gif">
Salafi-kids saying that Allah is in the sky.